Driving time before a break

[chevmac]

Got asked this question and wondered if anyone has a definitive answer

What is the minimum amount of time you can drive before taking a break?

[M_Bennett]

Originally Posted by chevmac

Got asked this question and wondered if anyone has a definitive answer

What is the minimum amount of time you can drive before taking a break?

There is no legal minimum. Did you mean maximum? And are you referring to Domestic (i.e. local bus service) or EU Regs (i.e. coaching)?

[chevmac]

Originally Posted by M_Bennett

There is no legal minimum. Did you mean maximum? And are you referring to Domestic (i.e. local bus service) or EU Regs (i.e. coaching)?

No I mean minimum under EU regs - someone asked me if there was a minimum and I had never heard of one so thought I'd ask

[dunfermlinedave]

I don't believe there is a minimum, the main criteria being that after 5 1/4 hours (EU) you have had at least 45 minutes of rest and done no more than 4.5 hrs continuous driving.

That said, I suppose it depends on the nature of the particular job. Rennies operate Citylink reliefs from Edinburgh, for which you are asked to take 45 mins so clear the driving time entirely, should you be sent to Inverness or Oban, for example. This despite Edinburgh being only 30 mins or so from the base in Dunfermline.

[jcjdavis1]

Hi. There used to be a minimum before the last change of rules, when you could do 3x15,15&30 etc. Might have been an hour (guess). Jim

[paul c]

There is no legal minimum for example you could show a few minutes checking time then take a break for an hour and still be able to drive for 4 1/2 hours.

[jcjdavis1]

Hi. I think it was you had to take a 30min. break then 15 if you only drove a short time. Jim

[rriggs]

There's no minimum which can be handy sometimes. Put your card in and get the coach ready including maybe maneuvering around the yard and then take 15 mins break before you go out. This means you can then do the rest of your 4.5 hours and only need a 30 min break before you can get going again.

Cheers

Rog

[leeyarnold]

i had heard that you had to do an hour before first break but not convinces that this was law

[Victor Meldrew]

Originally Posted by rriggs

There's no minimum which can be handy sometimes. Put your card in and get the coach ready including maybe maneuvering around the yard and then take 15 mins break before you go out. This means you can then do the rest of your 4.5 hours and only need a 30 min break before you can get going again.

Cheers

Rog

Thanks for that clarification.

Following on from the 30 mins break above, you can then do another straight 4.5 hours driving.

That is 9 hours driving with only a 30 min. break in the middle.

From what I remember this wasn't allowed a few years ago under the old rules before 1997.

Well that's progress I suppose.

Just a few days ago I had a tacho 'infringement' on my digi card for driving more than 4.5 hours without taking a 45 min. break. It was picked up by the company computer analysis software and the appropriate printout produced for me to sign.

The 'offence' fell into this category of driving 4.5 hours after a 30 min. break as above.

I argued my case using as evidence the wall chart

http://www.coachdriverforum.co.uk/we...?do=file&id=10

top left hand corner entitled 'Driving Limits & Breaks from Driving'.

I didn't win with the boss who agreed, but said sign the form anyway and we are both covered.

Victor.

[ROG]

Originally Posted by chevmac

Got asked this question and wondered if anyone has a definitive answer

What is the minimum amount of time you can drive before taking a break?

One minute is the answer as a driving break cannot be taken BEFORE any driving has been done

Legal
1 minute driving
15 min break
4 hours 29 mins driving
30 min break
4 hours 30 mins driving
45 min break

[Victor Meldrew]

Originally Posted by ROG

One minute is the answer as a driving break cannot be taken BEFORE any driving has been done

Legal
1 minute driving
15 min break. In my case 45 minutes break rather than only 15 min.
4 hours 29 mins driving
30 min break
4 hours 30 mins driving
45 min break

Just recently I completed a duty much as you described above in your last post as legal, only on this occasion instead of the first break being 15 min it was actually 45 min.

This got me yet another infringement notice for driving more than 4 hours 30 min without taking a 45 min break.

In this case the reason was that I had taken my required 45 min right at the beginning and the 'clock was restarted' so that after driving the 4 hours 29 min I should have taken another 45 min break not the 30 min I had taken as in the above schedule.

I argued my case from the wall chart

http://www.coachdriverforum.co.uk/we...?do=file&id=10


Citing this paragraph...


You can split the break and distribute it throughout the driving period. If you do this, the first portion of the

break must be at least 15 minutes and the second at least 30 minutes. The breaks must be taken so that

you never exceed the 41/2 hour driving limit. The illustration shows how this may be done;


It says the first portion of the break should be a minimum of 15 minutes but there is no maximum specified. I therefore considered my first '15 min' break to be of 45 minutes duration.

This didn't go down too well with the boss who thought I was too clever by half. I gave up discussing this with him and signed yet another infringement notice.

So Rog (or anyone) was he right or was I?

Victor.

[rriggs]

Originally Posted by Victor Meldrew

So was he right or was I?

I'm afraid you were wrong!

If you had taken any rest up to 45 minutes but not actually the full 45 minutes you would have been OK because your 30 minute rest after 4h29m driving would have reset the clock before your next stint of driving.

To make the pattern work you need your first rest to be be less than 45 minutes so that the second 30 minute (or longer) rest is the one that resets the driving time clock.

Legal
1 minute driving
44 min break- 1st part of spilt rest
4 hours 29 mins driving
30 min break - 2nd part of spilt rest & driving time clock reset
4h30m total driving
4 hours 30 mins driving
45 min break - Complete rest & driving time clock reset
4h30m total driving

Not Legal
1 minute driving
45 min break- Complete rest & driving time clock reset
0h1m total driving
4 hours 29 mins driving
30 min break - 1st part of spilt rest & driving time clock NOT reset
4 hours 30 mins driving
45 min break - 2nd part of spilt rest & driving time clock reset
8h59m total driving


Cheers

Rog

[ROG]

Rog, that is true but is also one of the daftest parts of the current regs

In the example in your post (my favourite example as well) because the driver had 1 minute of EXTRA break they are forced to have another 15 mins of break

And the reverse is true -
As the driver had 1 minute less than 45 mins they are not made to have the extra 15 mins

so if the driver has 1 minute more they need 15 mins more and if they have 1 minute less they need 15 mins less !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do wonder what was going through their minds when they decided on this ??

[rriggs]

Originally Posted by ROG

I do wonder what was going through their minds when they decided on this ??

I know, crazy but true! I think it was one of things that nobody "decided" on but just ended up happening that way. Just the effect of the other rules without every eventuality being thought of!

Cheers

Rog

[John Williamson]

It's better than the old rules, where you could drive for a few minutes from Battersea coach park to Victoria, take thirty minutes off, then drive for nearly nine hours with one break of fifteen minutes halfway up. Say, from Victoria to Newcastle on National Express. This was a real schedule for a while.

There was actually quite a bit of research done before the new rules were introduced, but compromises were made due to the fact that the best options couldn't be programmed into the digital tachographs at the time they were designed.

Bye!

John.